Good afternoon everyone!
I want to share my experience, and perhaps get some input from others, of the process of getting married to an Irish Citizen as a non-EU Citizen (in my case, I'm American). This is a lengthy post, and a lengthy process. So, here we go!
Ireland requires a three month advance notification to your local Civil Service Registration office. This notice can be done online here: Civil Registration Service You put in your name, some other basic info, and choose a date/time in which you will meet the Registrar.
When you make the appointment with the Registrar, you will contacted via email and post on what information and documents you need to bring with you. In my case, me and my intended spouse were required to bring the following:
- Passports as identification.
- Birth Certificates: Extremely Important: In my case, as a non-EU citizen, I was required to bring a certificate with an Apostille Stamp which validated that my birth certificate, issued by the state in which I was born, is a legitimate and accurate document within my State and is recognized by the United States. Any country that participates in the Hague Convention. More information on that is here. In my case, to secure this document, I physically went to my state capital which had a dedicated office that issues these Apostille Stamps. I came with my passport, $15.00, and a cover letter stating the country in which the Stamp was going to be used. I was finished in 15 minutes and had my shiny gold stamp. Yay!
The following do not apply to us, but is important to note for others:
- Original final divorce decrees in respect of all previous divorces if either of you is divorced. Further information will be required if it was a foreign divorce and you will require an approved English translation of the divorce decree
-Original dissolutions in respect of all previous civil partnerships if either of you has a civil partnership dissolution
-Final decree of nullity and a letter from the relevant court confirming that no appeal was lodged, if either of you was in a civil partnership or marriage that was annulled by an Irish Court
-Deceased spouse's death certificate and previous civil marriage certificate if either of you is widowed
-PPS Numbers: Important: Obviously as an American I have no PPS number, which was fine. My future intended spouse does so he provided that.
You will also have to provide information about the intended marriage such as:
-Whether it will be a civil, secular or religious ceremony.: In our case, it is Civil, which is important to keep in mind, as our process may differ from a Religious or Secular ceremony. How one would plan a full formal ceremony from abroad is beyond the scope of my capabilities and sounds head-wrecking. But apparently it can be done, so huge kudos to those who have done it!
-The intended date and location of the marriage. We gave a date-range, and that was fine.
-Details of the proposed solemniser of the marriage: Solemnisers can be found online. We did not provide one at the time, and this was okay. We had no preference one way or another who solemnizes it.
-The names and dates of birth of the two proposed witnesses. Important to note, the witnesses must be over the age of 18. They do not have to be Irish Citizens.
-You will also have to pay a notification fee. Our notification fee was 200 euro.
Once we paid our fee and provided the above documents, it was time for her to then "interview" us in a separate room with a computer. We both signed non-impediment forms indicating that we both did not have any known impediments to our pending marriage (not a "marriage of convenience," not being "forced into the marriage," etc). She asked me for my physical address which was American as I indicated I'm not yet living in Ireland. This was fine. I also provided my Irish mobile number that I use when I am there.
It was then that I was informed, as I had an inkling I might be, that we would not receive our Marriage Registration Form at that time. The "MRF" is what allows you to book a time/date for your marriage ceremony, which in our case, will be held in that same Civil Services office and done by a solemniser. After the actual marriage ceremony, the MRF is signed by the solemiser, and the MRF is taken by the registrar and registered in their system immediately. We will then be given the Marriage Certificate and be on our merry way!
However, because I am a non-EU Citizen, I was told I have to come back for a second "interview" (I'll be back over there in early September and will do this at that time) by someone else in the office before we receive our MRF. Boo. I asked what information or documents I would need for this "interview" and she did not know the answer. We were told that the "interviewer" will be contacting us via email (or post) about that interview and what I will need to bring with me.
I have done a ton of research and it looks like Ireland is really cracking down on "marriages of convenience". My gut is telling me that I'll be further interviewed to ensure this isn't the case. Here is a quote I found from welfare.ie on changes in the Marriage Process:
"... these provisions which make it more difficult to broker marriages of convenience or so-called ‘sham marriages’ in the State. This is achieved by making a marriage of convenience an impediment to marriage and allowing a registrar the right to investigate.
The registrars in the Civil Registration Service will have the powers to form an opinion on whether an intended marriage would constitute a marriage of convenience and, consequently, there is an impediment to the marriage. The Act also provides for increased sharing of information in relation to suspected marriages of convenience between the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Justice and Equality.
A marriage of convenience is defined in the Act as “a marriage where at least one of the parties to the marriage (a) at the time of entry into the marriage is a foreign national and (b) enters into the marriage solely for the purpose of securing an immigration advantage for at least one of the parties to the marriage.”
These powers are intended to clamp down on abuse of marriages of convenience. EU citizens and their families have the right to move and reside freely within the territories of the Member States. These rights also apply to non-EU national spouses of EU nationals. The right to marry is particularly protected in the Constitution. However, these rules are being abused by individuals who are using marriage to gain an automatic right of residency. The powers that are being given to the registrars today will make it more difficult for marriages of convenience to be contracted."
Interesting.
The article goes on to say that a non-EU national may be asked for the following at the interview at the Registrar:
- if the parties to the intended marriage speak a common language;
- the period prior to the relevant notification of the intended marriage during which the parties to the intended marriage were known to each other;
- the number and frequency of meetings of the parties to the intended marriage prior to the notification of the intended marriage;
- if the parties to the intended marriage have lived together in the past or if they currently live together;
- the extent to which each party to the intended marriage is familiar with the personal details of the other party;
- the extent to which each party to the intended marriage intends to continue an existing commitment to mutual emotional and financial support of the other party to the intended marriage;
- the immigration status of one or each of the parties to the intended marriage who is a foreign national;
- other than in a case where money is paid as a dowry as appropriate to the culture of one or each party to the intended marriage, if money was paid as an inducement for the marriage;
- if the one or each of the parties to the intended marriage has previously been the subject of an objection under the provisions of the Act;
- any other information regarding the intended marriage which gives reasonable grounds for considering the marriage to be a marriage of convenience.
I'm wondering if anyone else has been through this process, and if so, what their experience was so I can know what to expect and if I have to come up with a case to prove the legitimacy and answer some of the above questions.
As the process continues I'll update, but my next update won't be until September for my next interview.
Kelsey
I want to also note that I was informed before our appointment that "Please note that, in certain circumstances, the Registrar may seek further details or documentation at or following interview at your notification appointment." and "Please note that, in certain circumstances, the Registrar may seek further details at interview," but I wish we could have taken care of these details ahead of time. We called the Registrar twice to ensure we had everything we needed to hopefully get the MRF considering I'm not an EU citizen and don't live in Ireland yet and was told I would be fine if we had everything on the checklist.
Hey Kelsey,
This is going to be very useful to others. Thank you for sharing all this info.
I have a few questions for you:
1. You said that you will be contacted via post. What address did you use? Does it have to be an Irish one?
2. The Apostille Stamp: never heard of that, whoa! What if you don't live anywhere close to a State capital? Will a notarized copy work?
3. My guess is that the second interviewer will require more evidence of co-habitation, intent to marry etc. Please let us know what they ask for, but I'm sure it's different from case to case. 2 interviews though! How do they expect people from outside Ireland to do that?
4. Does the MRF have an expiration date? e.g. it is good for up to x number of months in which you have to then get married.
I totally understand why, but it's kind of funny that they now put so much effort in to cracking down on marriages of convenience. Way back when weren't marriages basically for convenience reasons anyway? 🙂
I went through a similar process in the US years ago, when I married my US wife. It wasn't in advance of getting married, but was to prove we weren't in a 'sham' marriage prior to getting my green card. It was a bit of a tense affair, as most US immigration interviews generally are. They're not meant to be nice to people, I guess. Many years and kids later, we're still managing to pull the wool over their eyes 🙂
1. You said that you will be contacted via post. What address did you use? Does it have to be an Irish one? No, I don't have an Irish address, as I'm still living in America. He gave his Irish address and I gave my American one. As an aside, when I opened a bank account in Ireland, they accepted by American address and send correspondence there.
2. The Apostille Stamp: never heard of that, whoa! What if you don’t live anywhere close to a State capital? Will a notarized copy work? You can get an Apostille Stamp at a number of different locations depending on the state,, but the capital happened to be closest to me. A notarized copy will not be accepted, it must be an Apostille Stamp. However, you don't have to go in person - you can mail your documents, check, and cover letter. I just preferred to go in person as it wasn't that far and I get scared about my passport being lost in the mail.
3. My guess is that the second interviewer will require more evidence of co-habitation, intent to marry etc. Please let us know what they ask for, but I’m sure it’s different from case to case. 2 interviews though! How do they expect people from outside Ireland to do that? I have a feeling the intensity of questions will greatly vary from case to case. I found some instances online where they were asked if they had met each others families, what are the plans after you get married, why do I want to come to Ireland, etc. Seems that in some situations there's a lot of 'grilling' going on. But, I think if everything is legitimate and you're forthcoming/honest with your situation and background of relationship everything should go okay.
4. Does the MRF have an expiration date? e.g. it is good for up to x number of months in which you have to then get married. Yes - expiration date is 6 months from issue.
I understand why as well.. but in all honesty I hate being grilled or feeling like I'm doing something wrong when I'm not. I can be a bit timid at times so I hope I'm not stuttering in the presence of authority! Haha! I'm just going to make sure I'm well prepared in advance with whatever they intend to ask us.
I'm sure you'll be fine. I'd say it's highly rare that legitimate couples have problems. You can answer all the questions they'll ask, and provide whatever documentation they need to back up your case.
I wonder how they handle "mail order spouse" cases. (I hope that's not a politically insensitive phrase, but I don't know what else it's called). Are these types of weddings considered 'sham' even though in many cases, they are long lasting. Or arranged marriages. It wasn't unheard of in Ireland up until recent decades, particularly in rural areas, for marriages to be arranged in some fashion or another. Not for you to answer obviously, I'm just thinking out loud.
@kwalsh112 - For California the County Clerks office is empowered to mark the documents, or at least they were when I submitted my birth certificate for my UK passport.
Correction - County Clerks for California were on the list the UK didn't need authenticated.
Hi all!
Just wanted to provide a quick update on the above process.
I mentioned last time that as a non-EU Citizen, I was told I have to come back for a second “interview”. We were told that the “interviewer” will be contacting us via email (or post) to confirm the date of our appointment and what I will need to bring with me.
Well, our date for the 2nd interview was never confirmed by post or by email - we heard from no one. We had to call up ourselves and schedule it. It actually seemed to us like they had forgotten once we got someone on the phone!
Probably wouldn't be a big deal to most couples, but as I'm not in Ireland yet, I had to hold off on booking my flight over there in September because I didn't have the confirmed second appointment date. But, once date and time was confirmed, we were able to get the appropriate flight!
Yay! 🙂
Kelsey
Good thing you checked, Kelsey! Thx for the tip too.
Getting closer 🙂
Hi comrads,
Ahhh it's all so exciting for me! I'm just starting my research on all this and it's looking doable for me and my future wife (who is American, I being Irish). I guess this all has to be done before I look at venues Again, I have a few questions if anyone can assist! Firstly, I can't wait to be interviewed, I could declare my love for her all day. We have known each other for years but our relationship is comparatively short. We will be having a civil ceremony in the registry office and having a wedding at a different date and so my questions are:
1.) Our first notification to marry meeting is in November and we plan to marry in August. I assume we won't be issued an MRF straight away, if so there would be no point in having the meeting as this MRF would expire within the 6 months. So will they issue it to us at a later date closer to our marriage date or should I postpone this meeting?
2.) Must she be living in Ireland for the three months prior to the wedding, is that an obligation?
3.) If so, will she somehow be able to work while she is here during those three months? I'm able to support her if she doesn't work but she would go mad not working. She needs it for her sanity and I'd hate to think she'd be better off in the States with work until closer to our wedding date.
Much love,
Thanks for your help.
Adam