Hello everyone, this is Kate's husband Joe and I wanted to discuss the Visa Stamp 4.

So my experience was completely different then @mairead and her husband. When I arrived in Ireland in May we told immigration that we were moving here and he simply stamped my passport with my entry date and no visa. He directed me to my local Garda station in Carlow and to report to the immigration officer there. We have visited with the local officer twice, and he has yet to stamp my passport or register me. I am not sure if there are different rules that apply for me as Kate is an Italian citizen, not Irish. He has also given us conflicting information on both of our visits.

I was directed by the officer to send in my Eu treaty application. He said once this was received I would then get a temporary stamp to cover me until I was here for 6 months and eligible for my GNIB card. I find it odd that he can't just stamp my passport there as I technically don't have any Visa at all.

So my question is am I able to get the Visa stamp 4 like Maireads's husband did? Is my local immigration officer being lazy? And if so what other options do I have?

Thanks and COYBIG!

Joe

@katemreagan - Here are some links:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Family%20Members%20of%20EU_EEA%20_Swiss%20citizens - Is an over view and links on how to apply for a residence card.

Policy document for reference - http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf/Files/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf

Information from citizeninformation.ie - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_family_members.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_eu_national.html

Text of the Law about it -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF

Here is a general overview of how the process should work per the EU directives, and links on how to get assistance if there are issues.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/non-eu-family-members-residence-card/index_en.htm

Joe
Glad to see we have your full support for the Euros 🙂 You enjoying the games?

I recommend going back to the Garda and have some very clear questions that you want answers to. For one, ask what exact steps do you need to take to get your Stamp 4. There should be a clearly defined process you can follow? Otherwise your entry stamp will expire, and you'll have other issues to deal with.

I don't see why you should be treated any differently just because Kate is Italian. According to INIS you fall in to the "non-EEA family member of EEA citizen"

We have gone back twice now and spoken to him again over the phone - he is sticking to his story that the INIS website is incorrect. We are going to see if we can go to a different station to get a residence card - everything we are reading and have been told is that we still need to register at the Garda station within the 90 days for the residence card, and then also apply for the EU Treaty Rights.

It looks like we can also go to the Garda station in Baltinglass which isn't too far from us - maybe 30/40 min. So, we are going to try there.

Please keep us updated @katemreagan. This won't be the last time you encounter conflicting information when trying to solve a matter that really should be black and white.

Joe spoke with the officer in Baltinglass yesterday and was told the following...

Technically, the law should be black and white and EU spouses should be/are treated the same as Irish spouses. However, since the EU Treaty Rights application process came into effect this February, the guards have been instructed not to give the stamp 4 or a residence card until after the application has been received. The guards are under the impression that it only takes about 2-3 weeks to get the letter of receipt of application, so it should be fine; however we have spoken to both the immigration office and the citizens information office and it is really about 14 weeks. Because of this "process" the EU Treaty application will be denied because you cannot actually apply for it until you have been residing in the country for 6 months. Once it has been denied, you can appeal it and then you will get approved and be able to get the stamp 4 eu visa which allows the spouse to move freely in and out of the country. It's a convoluted mess...what is frustrating is that it is not against the law for the guards to give the stamp, they have just been instructed not to.

Needless to say, we are proceeding with both the EU Treaty Rights application and applying for Joe's Italian citizenship...we will see which one comes through first.

You do have the right to appeal to the EU on it if it is delayed too long.

So for most people in a similar situation then, @katemreagan, they're not going to be able to take up employment for multiple months, right? What a red tape mess that is.

Do you have more info of the EU treaty rights application process? Is it specifically for this scenario, or just a part of a larger thing?

One of the things I discovered when I looked at options for moving to either the UK or Ireland, the immigration requirements for my family were stricter going into the UK. The EU rules for EU citizens and their non-EU family members do not necessarily apply to citizens of the country involved because of sovereignty rules. The UK could apply more restrictive rules for UK citizens, than they could for citizens of other EU countries. In an earlier thread it was mentioned Denmark was similar with their own citizens.