Stamp 0 clarifications from the Dept of Justice
I have talked with many of our readers about the immigration status known as 'Stamp 0'. According to inis.gov.ie it is defined as a "low level immigration status which is not intended to be reckonable for Long Term Residence or Citizenship." The common understanding is that people who retire to Ireland (non-EEA citizens) fall into a category of immigrants who are given this immigration stamp. It does not allow them to work, and they are not allowed to collect any state benefits. The problem that people are having though, is that the information provided online is not enough to base an emigration decision on. People are concerned whether they will meet the criteria to get the stamp in the first place, and if they do, then what will happen to them once they move to Ireland.
To help clarify some of the questions people were having I contacted the justice department with a list of questions. They recently replied, and hopefully some of what they answered back with will be of help to some of you. To give context I put some of the questions I asked in bold below within the response.
All applications are assessed on a case-by-case basis. However, it is expected that the applicant can demonstrate sufficient funds to cover their time in the state with out working either in the State or online. It would also be necessary to demonstrate that the applicant has sufficient funds to ensure that they will not need to access State benefits including Medical care and medical cards.
If the applicant wishes to remain in the state indefinitely then they should be able to show a lump sum sufficient to purchase a property as well as a regular income in the form of a pension payment. If there is no regular income then the person should be able to show a sufficient lump sum to cover the rest of their life in the State including enough resources to pay for elderly nursing home care. Further information on Stamp 0 immigration permission is available here http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Stamp%200.
Is the 50k per annum requirement assessed yearly?
Yes it is, as we must ensure that the person does not fall into a situation that they will require state benefits.Could we safely assume that a person with a €500,000 retirement fund would meet the requirement?
Yes depending on their age and what income will be generated from that sum if they are not also in receipt of an income.The information online also indicates that a letter of permission would indicate if the permission is renewable or not. For someone hoping to retire in Ireland, how could they ensure that would be possible? Dropping everything in their home country, to move to Ireland for one year has less appeal, than being given hope of a renewable visa.
Once their finances are assessed and they meet the financial criteria the are granted permission to reside in the State, however, their permission is given on an annual basis after checking that they continue to meet the criteria.If the persons believe they fulfil the criteria and wish to reside in the State on these very limited conditions you may make an application in writing to
UNIT 2 Residence Division
Irish Naturalisation & Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay
Dublin 2The application must include the following
Reason for the request
Full copy of your passport
Any Irish Associations
Evidence of your finances verified by an Irish based accountant listing
yearly income and any financial liabilities. Investment sums are not
normally reckonable – finances must be in the form of pension income or
readily accessible funds.
Evidence of private medical insurance with full cover in private
hospitals
Police clearance certificate
Health declaration
As many people have commented previously, it seems the Irish government do not necessarily want non-EEA citizens moving to Ireland by way of this immigration status. It certainly does not make things easy for people, and even if you meet the criteria, there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get approval in the first place, and then to continue to maintain your right to reside in Ireland.
I know from speaking with quite a few of you that you would like to buy a home and settle in Ireland. Or at least lay down some sort of roots. How does the information I received impact your plans or thoughts about a retirement in Ireland?
Disclaimer: as noted on numerous other posts on this site, I'd like to point out here that this information is not intended to be taken as official immigration advice. This website offers firsthand information found by those of us who have moved to Ireland, and have something helpful to offer others. Do not base your emigration decisions on information found here. Contact the relevant authority to discuss your own unique situation.
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Liam,
Thank you for the information; it does help in making decisions to move to Ireland on a long term basis. What would be the process if we, myself and wife, want to immigrate and become citizens of Ireland with EU passport and such? Is there a different process or stamp? I looked at the stamp listed and there really isn’t one that looks to be for retired wanting to become long term residences and citizens.
Thanks
DFA.
DFA,
Unless you qualify for one of the other stamps, then your only option would be to go with Stamp 0. I don’t know what the route to citizenship is from there, or even if one exists. I’ll check into that.
Liam
Thanks so much for the clarifications, Liam. Yes, this new information is making is rethink whether Ireland would be a long-term home for us without more certainty around whether we would be able to stay beyond a few months at a time. Our preference in moving to Ireland is to purchase or rent a 1-2 bedroom flat somewhere in County Kerry, go without a car to save money, and use my pension for day-to-day expenses, which would easily cover everything with room to spare. Since we wouldn’t be living in Dublin, we won’t need anything close to $100,000/year to cover our expenses and enable us to enjoy and become involved in our new community. We were hoping for a less stressful, more simple lifestyle in Ireland, but feel we would not be able to have that if we had to worry about being told to leave at the end of a year because our income was only $80,000 between the two of us instead of $100,000. But we still haven’t given up, and are hoping that by the time we move, if we do, the immigration laws may have relaxed somewhat. If not, we will probably still enjoy vacations in Ireland but won’t move there.
Kate,
I looked at the website and the income is 50k Euros not dollars.
We are looking to move to Ireland too, we have the income and savings, but it seem to be a lot of paperwork and jumping through hoops just to get in and to same since you have to meet the requirements every year.
DFA
One of the stumbling blocks for us is that we would not be permitted to work online, which does not take any employment away from Irish nationals but would allow us to bring in additional income through short-term freelance contracts with companies we currently work with on our client lists. That is another big issue for us. We would have to give up our online business network as well, and that would put us on the edge of being to qualify year after year regarding income.
What about investing/ starting your business in Ireland. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/types_of_employment/self_employment/coming_to_set_up_a_business_in_ireland.html
That would be a possibility that we should look into.
Kate, may I introduce myself. I am Leslie and my son and I moved to Ireland about a year ago, before this Stamp 0 thing was known. Let me just do a brief background for you (I’ll try to be brief but a lot has happened.) I had researched retiring to Ireland for years and just before I actually came, I again contacted INIS to make sure I was doing everything correctly. I was only pointed to the website which just said that I couldn’t get long term residency UNTIL I had lived here for 5 years and that until then I needed to get permission to remain. To do that I needed to have a valid passport and prove I could support myself. Seeing no other obstacles, my son and I pooled our life savings and sold up in the states and moved over. We bought a house in Donegal and proceeded to upgrade it, etc. etc. We arrived in January of 2015, took possession of our house in February 2015 and reported to Immigration in Feb. we then applied for the permission to remain (no one said anything about a Stamp 0) on March 2. In August we received a letter from immigration (INIS) asking for more information and at that time Stamp O was mentioned but there was no mention of any other requirements. We supplied the information requested and in December just before Christmas, we got letters saying that we did not meet the requirements of 50,000 euros each per year and did not each have a lump sum amount equal to the purchase of a home. the fact that we had paid cash for our home and lived debt free here was not sufficient. We were told our permission was denied. Since then we have been writing, talking on the radio, seeing politicians, working with neighbors, etc. to see about ths whole thing and finally I got an email from INIS saying that they were giving me a Stamp 0 but there is no indication of how long that permission is for. It is NOT intended as a way to long term residency however, which is what I wanted and expected. Now after reading what Liam has found, I see that my son’s income (which is an online job and a substantial part of our joint monies) is not going to be considered either. It looks very much as if we will be forced to leave and I feel that Ireland has stolen our money in that we were never told of this policy prior to coming here. In fact, the INIS email to me mentions that they are gragting me this “reprieve” because I came before the policy was in effect and I came in good faith. Unfortunately that good faith will only be good for this time period and I fear that once my allotted reprieve is over, we will have to meet the same 50,000 euro criteria. We will therefore be planning to move back to the US and we will no doubt lose an incredible amount of money as selling our house in the current market is not going to happen and in any event, we invested approximately 250,000 euros in the move, the house, the renovation and just living here for a year and we will never be able to recoup that. I have been devastated by this news and have been fighting every way I know how but now also knowing that an “online” job is not going to be considered, nor will our investment here be considered, I see no way that we can stay. I urge you to reconsider your move here until such time as this policy is changed. I hate for anyone else to suffer financially and emotionally as I have had to do over these past few months. Good luck with whatever your plans are.
Hi Leslie,
What an incredible mess you’ve been left in. So sorry to hear. Have you considered talking to an Irish Immigration Lawyer to look in to your options?
Liam
Kate, if I cannot come to Ireland under Stamp ), I am considering one of the immigration investment option tagged by David. I have done a lot of research an if interested, would be happy to discuss and/or compare notes if this path still has any interest to you. In any case, best of luck. Kevin
Any immigration status is subject to change. When they changed the rules in 2015 it affected some retirees already in Ireland as covered in this article on another website:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Ireland-rejecting-American-retirees-under-new-rules.html?signup-thank-you
Thanks, David. Immigration is a huge issue all over the world. Friends of ours were hoping to immigrate to Ireland or the UK, and have now decided to go to Spain instead since it is fairly easy for non-EU citizens to get residency there, the weather is better, and they are excited to become part of a vibrant community in Southern Europe. The current requirements for non-EU citizens wanting to retire in Ireland will not work for us, but we will watch for future developments that might make this possible in the next year and a half.
David,
I am so glad I came across your website and thank you so much for providing all this helpful information.
I am a newly minted Irish citizen (through descendancy)and am completing a life-long dream of moving to Ireland. I will arrive on the 23rd of January. I have secured a lovely house for rent in Camp, County Kerry. Your website has already given me a number of useful “heads ups”.
What are the first things I need to do upon arrival? I will be traveling around the country for the first week or so while I wait for the premises to be available (Feb 1). That leaves me free to attend to all the administrative issues. What permits etc. do I need to secure and where do I need to go to secure them? I am travelling on my American passport (like you, I am from Southern California) and want to secure an Irish passport asap.
Thank you for any information you can provide.
John Bowler
Hi John, and welcome to the Ireland Move Club.
I’m guessing your questions/comments are directed at me?
The first thing you should take care of is getting a PPS number. You’ll need this for state benefits, opening a bank account, obtaining work etc. It’s like your US SS number.
You’ll need to apply in person, and you will need proof of ID among other things, notably your address. This can be tricky for many people, but if you can secure your lease agreement for your house in Kerry then that should do it.
Here’s the full info http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-How-to-Apply.aspx
Looking forward to hearing more from you in the lead up to your move, and afterwards.
Liam
Thanks Liam and I apologize for the mixup on the name. You will no doubt be hearing more from me in the coming days/weeks
John
If you’re jealous of John(@beachbum), raise your hand! 🙂
🙂
Yeah, congrats on the new citizenship status, John!
absolutely Wish I could be on the citizen track!! congratulations!
Liam, Thanks so much. I have been to Ireland as a tourist on at least 5 separate occasions but living as a permanent resident is still going to be challenging. There are innumerable issues of culture, rhythms of life, language etc. which I will have to learn. I am sure this website will be invaluable in making that adjustment. The positive side is that having to learn all these new skills will keep life interesting and no doubt immensely rewarding. I look forward to all the exciting learning opportunities this move will provide. Life is about to get really interesting!
Leslie, I know it must have been painful to re-live your experience in your post, but it has certainly made us reconsider our move to Ireland. In three weeks we are leaving for what we had hoped was a trip to Ireland to start planning for our hoped for move in fall of 2017. But now that Stamp 0 requirements basically prohibit non-EU citizens who are not wealthy from moving to Ireland, we are looking elsewhere in Europe. We’ll still love every minute of our vacation, but after listening to you talk about all you have been through, even if the requirements changed this year, we still wouldn’t move at this point.
A good portion of my income is through a freelance writing position that I’ve had for some time, and it is all conducted online as a contractor, so my income wouldn’t count either. That also makes a difference for us. My husband works in high-level tech support for and would probably be able to continue working with them if we moved to Ireland, but that wouldn’t count either.
Thank you for the cautionary post about what has happened to you. I’m sure it will result in a lot of people thinking twice about moving to Ireland, even if they meet the current requirements. In the meantime, we are looking at other EU countries that will welcome us and allow us to obtain residency either prior to leaving the States, or by meeting income and investment requirements that are in line with that of citizens of their own country.
Best wishes,
Kate
I’m so glad you are looking at other options, Kate. I must tell you that a secondary option for us was Ecuador. There is a great ex pat community there and my son had traveled through South America and loved Ecuador–where we would have been was in the mountains so it never gets too hot or too cold. The initial move would probably have cost the same as houses have risen in prices over the last few years but the day to day cost of living would have been less. But when I didn’t see any reason NOT to move to Ireland and since my heart has been in Ireland since I can remember (I have traveled here many times over the past 15 years usually staying a month each time), I chose Ireland. Had Ireland been honest and upfront about their new rule changes, we could have avoided this heartbreak (and bank break!!) and moved to Ecuador or chosen a better place in the US. That is why I am so hurt and so angry by it all as I feel Ireland “conned” us into coming and then is retroactively applying rules that will force us to leave.
Anyway I am glad you are reconsidering and looking someplace more welcoming. Don’t misunderstand me the Irish people are WONDERFUL and very welcoming–they are non too happy with this decision by the government either but. . .
Also, Liam yes I did check with two different attorneys and both just said we had no case. I honestly don’t see how that is possible since had this been a private company we could have sued for negligence at the least and fraud because we were not told before hand what these requirements would be. As far as I am concerned Ireland had a “secret law” that they are applying retroactively to steal our money. sounds harsh I know but we invested all our savings here and now will be forced to leave it so.. .sorry but I’m not a happy camper!
Stamp 0 clarifications from a current applicant irelandmoveclub.com/stamp-0-clarifications-from-a-current-applicant/