The Irish home-bidding process is seriously flawed
Since moving back to Ireland I have been on the lookout for a nice family home to call my own. I'd like to buy a place sooner rather than later, as property prices are favourable (somewhat) at present, and who knows what way they will go in the New Year.
I have expressed interest in a few properties, and even placed a couple of bids on homes that would really suit my needs. However, I am having difficulty coming to terms with the way houses are bought and sold here.
Informal bidding
For those of you unfamiliar with the home-buying process in Ireland, there is absolutely nothing formal about placing a bid on a house that you like. Basically, you call up the auctioneer who is acting as the seller's agent, and let them know how much you'd like to offer for the home. Nothing needs to be written down on paper, or signed. At least initially anyway. In fact neither of the 2 auctioneers I have placed bids through, know a single thing about my finances. They don't know if I have cash up front, if I am approved for a mortgage, or even if I have a job. This strikes me as very odd.
The other bidder
I did once buy a home in the United States, and to do so, I had to place a written offer via my realtor (US term for estate agent), who then sent it to the seller's realtor. Similar to buying something from a street trader, there was a bit of back-and-forth between us before we settled on a final price (all done on paper). This process, even though more costly, was less stressful, more honest and far more transparent. The reason I say that is because when I place a bid on a home in Ireland, almost immediately (within a couple of days), I get a phone call from the seller's auctioneer to let me know there's a competing offer (usually somewhere between 1k and 5k higher), and essentially the ball is back in my court. The thing about it is, I don't know for sure if there really is another legitimate offer or not. Maybe there is, but maybe it's not from a serious bidder (remember, these guys don't even know if I qualify for a loan). And, having stumbled on an interesting discussion on so-called "phantom bidders" I'd hate to think that there is something a little more sinister going on.
The price has now been raised, possibly by someone who can't afford the house, and from what I can tell the seller might never even have heard about my offer. That's frustrating! As it seems to go, if I then raise my offer again, the auctioneer takes that back to the other bidder, and gives them another chance to beat it. I am told that the auctioneer must present every bid to the seller, but from the outside, it looks like they are letting bidders play this bidding came first. I'm not saying that this happens all the time, it just seems to be what I have personally witnessed.
Naivety
Naively, when I dealt with an auctioneer in Ireland for the first time, I gave away too much information. I had this notion that because they were showing me around to all these homes, they were on "my side". (In the US, both the seller and buyer have their own agent. From what I can tell, in Ireland only the seller ever avails of a real estate agent.) I shared details such as my purchasing limit, that my kids were going to school locally, why the house was so attractive to us, etc... BIG mistake! But, lesson learned too. The seller's agent is of course acting in the best interest of (you guessed it) the seller. Share with them as little as possible is my advice.
Bidding in the USA
On this and on many of the other articles on this site, I keep referring back to my experience in the US. My apologies if that isn't what you are here to read about, but those are my past experiences, and without them, I might not be able to offer suggestions for making better decisions than I did.
So...in the US (at least in CA), when an offer is received in writing for a home, the seller usually responds (again in writing) with a counter offer. I don't have any professional experience in this field, but from what I remember, the seller can only entertain one offer at a time, and the buyer's agent will not submit offers on multiple homes at the same time. This promotes transparency, and commitment from both sides, and in essence, is a far fairer system than is used in Ireland.
Over to you...
Reflecting on what I just wrote I have to admit that this article is part rant, part advice. I really believe the system could be improved by being more transparent. I'd love to hear from you if you have suggestions for how I could be more successful at bidding for a home in Ireland. Also, if you have experience in buying a home in another country, maybe you can tell us a little about that in the comments. Thanks.
Update
It's been a few days since I published this article, and I have received some feedback on Twitter from the user with the handle 'Freerangelife'. In response to the Tweet below they responded with:
Quite the contrary, often a deposit and a handshake secures the house that you want, provided that you are a cash buyer.
I wasn't sure what was meant by 'cash buyer' but they clarified that as someone who is approved to buy a home, and does not need to sell a home first before buying. The whole point of my article is to highlight that from my own personal experience it has been quite the opposite. As mentioned above, the auctioneers don't know anything about my finances. They haven't even asked, and if they are not asking the other bidder for this information either, then how do they know either of us can afford the home. And if we can't, then is it fair that we can increase the price for each other? I'd love to hear from anyone else who would agree with Freerangelife's statement.
The Irish home-bidding process is seriously flawed http://t.co/gCCFj9zVfC via @IrelandMoveClub
— Ireland MoveClub (@IrelandMoveClub) November 24, 2014
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I read a very interesting article today in The Irish Times about 2 young foreign home buyers trying to buy a home in Ireland. They describe themselves as “Armed with cash and we can’t get rid of it”, and have a few “home truths for house sellers”.
They have a very interesting take on what is wrong with the house-buying process in Ireland. I have experienced many of the issues they describe myself, including very poor photos of properties, and estate agents not wanting to drive out to the property because it’s “a bit out of the way”. If you hope to buy property in Ireland some day, it’d be a good idea to read the article (and the comments). You’ll find it here.
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/armed-with-cash-and-we-can-t-get-rid-of-it-home-truths-for-house-sellers-1.2014605
To be honest its 8 years since we bought this but never had a major problem, we met agents at really remote sites (we are 23 miles from the agent we met to view this one).
I will agree about the POA point and never considered any given that tag.
We did engage a solicitor “Before” making an offer because of the different rules laws and processes we didn’t want to slip up. I also found a local surveyor to give the once over on the house AND the plans (which were slightly wrong)
Remember putting down a deposit is a commitment and the money is Non Refundable should you change your mind.
There are a lot of properties available out there so finding what you want with an agent you can work with really shouldn’t be a problem. Not in Rural Ireland anyway, no idea about cities.
One comment I will make is that folk coming here expecting to be virtually given a property because of the misconception that Ireland is drowning in debt are likely to be disappointed. Many prices might be less than half they were in the Celtic Tiger boom but most property is not as cheap as many seem to think it is.
Thanks for the helpful comment, Tony. What, if anything, did you find that a solicitor was able to do for you before you made an offer? Was it something that would encourage you to recommend doing the same to new buyers (myself included)?
Cheers
We had been looking all over from Listowel to Clifden for a couple of years on and off and had more or less given up. This place came up on a “Daft” email alert and we were actually the next valley over in a B&B. Anyway we came and looked, the price was right the work needed not insurmountable and a couple of job options for Christina.
Basically knowing a lot about buying in the UK and nothing about buying in Ireland I thought it wise to get some legal advice on the process. Yes it was a good idea for the sake of I think €20 we were given the in’s and outs of what was involved and the right way to go about things. The cost of the whole process seeing to owning came to about €1500 in charges including the €200 surveyor. This cost could have been slightly less but we were over in the UK selling Chris’s house so couldn’t do any of the ground work ourselves.
There are different set up’s about Joint ownership of a property with us not being married so that angle needs considering whether each of us own 1/2 each or both, jointly, own the whole. Technically how much we are responsible for outside the actual boundaries. The right of way to the septic tank which is not on our property but in the field next door. And now the Water issue has come into play.. I would get that looked into if buying a multi supply property like a Flat?
Having things changed after the event can be really costly.. we were considering change of name on the deeds and were quoted €1000 just for that.
I would advise getting some legal information face to face once you find somewhere you like. Unfortunately the broker selling the property might only be interested in the sale, we were lucky with the agent handling this and it was him who gave us the name of the one man band surveyor rather than a company type. The solicitor we used was down in Ennis, handy for SNN but a good way from here. In hindsight a local solicitor might have been better?
Great advice, Tony. Thank you!