Permission to Remain in Ireland as the spouse of an Irish National
Good afternoon (or night depending on where you are!)
I'd like to first say thank you to all that participate in these forums. The information I have learned just by reading has saved me a lot of headaches, so THANK YOU!
I am an American that will be moving to Ireland after the marriage (in Ireland) to my Irish-national soon-to-be husband. I have never been in Ireland on more than a 90 day regular visa. I have never been, and won't be, granted any other type of visa.
I'm looking for some clarification from the information I have found online and am hoping that someone who has personally gone through this process can help me out!
It looks like an individual can be granted permission to remain in Ireland, but is not entitled to a right of residence. One must apply for permission to remain - makes sense.
Under the "how do I apply section," it states:
"If you are a non-visa required national who has entered the State legally within the last 90 days both you and your Irish national spouse/civil partner should attend at your local Garda National Immigration Bureau Registration office with the following documentation:"
1. Your original marriage certificate - Great, can provide.
2. Your original passport - Sure
3. Your Irish spouse’s/civil partner’s original passport - Yep
4. Evidence of your joint address - Here's my question - If I am in Ireland on a 90 day visa, we will have to get my name on documentation to provide evidence of our joint address within that time. This is fine, except this brings me to my next point....
"How long will it take to process the application?"
i. Applications can take up to 12 months to process. Applications are dealt with in chronological order of receipt. - Whoa. So I can go to Ireland, set up our joint address, and may have to wait for 12 months for my application to remain to be processed? I can't stay past 90 days, and I cannot go back to America and wait out my application to be approved. I won't have any income and I won't have anywhere to live. Ha! Any insights on this?
If anyone can provide their personal experiences, timelines, or any hiccups that were stumbled upon that would be GREAT! Again, Liam and this entire page & forum have been immensely helpful! I'm sure I'll have tons more questions along the way, and hope they can help someone else in the future!
I am an Irish citizen and my husband is a US citizen (we have been living in the US since we got married). We will be going through this very process in mid-June, so I can let you know for certain then how it went.
In the meantime, I would advise you not to worry too much. Even though the official word is that the application can take up to 12 months, I believe that this won't be the case in general. I contacted the Department of Justice some months ago and this was the response:
"Your husband is a non visa required national and
can enter the State for up to 90 days at the discretion of the Immigration
officer at the airport. He should inform the officer that he is relocating
to reside here on a full time basis with you his Irish spouse. Both of you
should attend your local Immigration office (if residing in Dublin you
attend the GNIB office 13/14 Burgh Quay Dublin 2 or your local Garda
Station if residing outside the greater Dublin area) to enable him register
as the spouse of an Irish National. You take both your passports, marriage
certificate and evidence of where you are residing for registration
purposes. If you intend residing in your family home in your home town bring
evidence with you to your local garda station. He will then be issued with
a registration card/stamp 4 which will enable him enter employment without
the need of a work permit or set up a business in the State without the
consent of the Minister. His passport will be endorsed to reflect this.
This will be issued on the one day. There is no fee as the spouse of an
Irish national. This permission will be for one year which is renewable
once you attend together, provide evidence of joint address and he abides
by the laws of the State."
I am cautiously optimistic that it will go very smoothly and quickly, fingers crossed!
Some of what I am going to say is my own opinion, and Liam (@moveclubadmin) probably has some first hand experience from his move.
It would be easier for you both to move to any other EU country as a couple than to move to Ireland. The EU freedom of movement rules apply if he was to take you to any other EU country. Then you could both work almost immediately. ( http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en)
Countries can put more restrictive rules on their own citizens. My understanding is this is based on they remain sovereign countries and can apply their own rules to their citizens. I think most EU countries are more restrictive. For example I am a UK citizen, but it is much more restrictive for me to move to the UK with my wife. There is another couple on here with similar restrictions with Denmark if I recall correctly. Recent marriages fall into one of the most restrictive categories. It is possible, but you will be restricted on being able to work, and could have your right to remain revoked.
As for paperwork, you may want to request a duplicate passport. When you mail in your passport that will limit your ability to travel outside Ireland until your paperwork is processed.
Kelsey - great question, thanks for asking it. And thanks too Mairead and David for adding your thoughts. Mairead - I'm looking forward to hearing how your experience goes. I was under the impression that the Stamp 4 application was a somewhat lengthy process (multi weeks/months) as opposed to a trip to the Garda station with the relevant evidence to support the application.
Kelsey - the INIS website specifically says you cannot work until you have received proper immigration status. "An applicant has no entitlement to enter employment during the application process without the requirement of a Work Permit issued by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation." The DJEI then says the following about spouses of Irish citizens...They "are a matter, in the first instance, for the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service which will determine the status of the relationship and may provide the appropriate residency permission along with permission to be employed." They are referring to the Stamp 4 application process here.
Unless you meet the criteria for another type of work permit offered by the DJEI (list here), then you're probably out of luck until your application is approved. Let's hope that Mairead can shed more light on that soon, and fingers crossed it's a swift process.
Regarding the 90 days...once you register with the Gardai you should be good to go while your application is being processed. Be sure to have your passport stamped for the max number of days when you arrive in Ireland. Often they will just give you a 2 week or 30 day stamp, but if they do that you'll be scrambling to get proof of address in that space of time. Any utility type bill will take 30-60 days to arrive, so when you arrive, explain your situation to the immigration officer before they stamp the passport.
In reference to what David said, I don't have any personal experience with this process. I am Irish by birth, and my wife is a naturalized Irish citizen.
Links to details mentioned above
P.S. thank you for your complimentary remarks 🙂 and keep the questions coming.
Liam (@moveclubadmin) - I remembered from other posts that your wife moved with you. I didn't know that status of her citizenship.
Kelsey (@kwalsh112) - Similar restrictions on my wife and children is what I ran across when considering the UK. My family has deep roots in the Liverpool area. Unless the UK votes to leave the EU, it is easier for us to go to any other EU country. The fact that my current employer has offices in Ireland and would consider a voluntary transfer (meaning at my expense) sealed the decision for us.
One possibility to consider is looking at your family history and see if you might qualify for citizenship in another EU country. Then you would be able to move and work in Ireland without having to wait. Yes, there would be a wait to get your other passport, but probably much less than a year. My UK passport took about 5 months. A grandparent who is/was Irish is enough with some work for Ireland. Parent for the UK. Some countries like Poland it is based on a date, not number of generations. A couple are almost any ancestry. Some countries if you have a living parent or grandparent who can claim citizenship, then you can claim based on them. I think Italy is that way.
Mairead @mairead - Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Please do keep us updated with your experience of this process as you move! I do hope it proceeds in the way that you've outlined! High hopes!
David @dorzak - Thank you for this! I did realize that it will likely take me time to have permission to work and even to find employment, so we're financially planning ahead of time for the lack of income. Unfortunately, going anywhere besides Ireland isn't an option, as he lives there and owns & operates his business. Great point on the duplicate passport - I didn't think of this! The family rule is tricky - I'm "Irish" on both sides of the family (Walsh & McLaughlin) but unfortunately my ancestors decided a quick stop in Newfoundland before settling in New York was a good idea. Because of this detour, neither family has actually been IN Ireland since the late 1800's. 🙁 Crazy, though, how we've found immigration paperwork from them coming to the US from Canada in the 1920's, but I don't think this will be enough... unless anyone has another opinion? I wish my name and looks would be enough to let me in the country!
Liam @moveclubadmin - Thank you for noting this - we realized that it will take some time for me to be able to be eligible to and find employment, unfortunately. We're building a large "cushion" in advance and luckily my to-be husband owns his business in Ireland. Thank you for the advice on the Immigration Officer and explaining the situation - I will do just that!
Am I correct here in saying that I can enter through Immigration on the 90-day max visa (after explaining the situation to the Officer) and then register with the Gardai with my application which should grant me additional time while my request is processed?
Thank you again TONS everyone!
Probably too many generations unless previous generations registered themselves with the Irish Foreign Births Register before the next generation is born. While the names are Irish, it doesn't mean you might not have an applicable maternal link.
My name is English, my mom's maiden name is English also, but her mother's maiden name is Irish. Had my grandmother been born in Ireland, I could have claimed Irish citizenship.
To answer your last question, Yes, that is what other's have done also.
Here's more info on it
There are two routes in which a non EEA national can apply for permission to reside in the State on the basis of marriage or civil partnership with an Irish national.
A). If you are a non visa required national who has entered the State legally within the last 90 days or if you are a visa required national and you are within the period of permission to remain granted to you on arrival in the State (except short stay ‘c’ visas):, or if you have current permission to remain in the State on an alternative basis both you and your Irish national spouse/civil partner should attend at your local Garda National Immigration Bureau Registration office with the following documentation:
Your original marriage/civil partnership certificate
Your original passport
Your Irish spouse’s/civil partner’s original passport
Evidence of your joint address
@moveclubadmin - Great, thank you kindly Liam!
If I find out any additional information I'll surely share. If others have any input or experience, I hope they can contribute as well! 🙂