I am interested in hearing other peoples reasons for moving back to Ireland, or if they they considered it why they didn't. Right now, my husband (American) and I (Irish from Mayo) are 95% sure we are moving back to Ireland. Here are our reasons:
1. We live in the Bay Area, California- which is one of the most expensive places to live in terms of rent/property costs, taxes etc. Basically everything costs more. We think that by moving to Ireland costs there will be comparable if not cheaper when we take into account changes to income which are likely to occur.
2. We are both 29 years old and are thinking long term, namely children. We would like to live near family; so it boils down to Ireland or the bay area. Honestly, as an irish person with LOTS of family (ahem 52 first cousins) family is a big deal.
3. Better work/life balance. In america its all about the big man, not about the workers, I know for a fact Europeans have it good. For example, in America 2 weeks paid vacation, no federally mandated maternity leave (or paternity), sick days, benefits are all dependent on the company, where as in Europeans get 20 days vacation (plus 9 holidays), maternity is 26 weeks etc. Also take into consideration working hours.
4. Children, so important that they deserve two points! But raising children in the Bay area scares the crap out of me. Schools seem to be horrible, the system is all about teach to the test (unless you want to pay $18,000 a year for a private convent school), there is no room for children to explore due to massive class sizes, there are also issues with mass shootings, kidnappings, gangland shootings and even heavy drugs. Also there is a little bit of sadness over raising them without my family or the irish culture. I remember as a child being shoo'd out of the house in the mornings on my summer holidays and told not to return til lunch time. Here you can be arrested to that! I know that things won't be the same as when I was a child...but they have to be better than the alternative. One also has to consider the 2 years of free pre-school available in Ireland...that same thing would cost us $40,000 here!
Obviously, there are other reasons, but these are our main ones when considering a move back to Ireland. They might not seem like much but in the everyday scheme of life they are a lot.
We would love to hear back from people who are considering/have considered or have made the move. Everyone at home, and also here, tell us "sure, it will be grand, come on home" but they are a bit biased.
Great question, Carol. Thanks for asking it here.
I've moved back and forth between Ireland and the US multiple times, and many of the reasons you mention above played a part in the decisions. The reason why we have back and forth is because we are an Irish/US couple like you too. Having strong ties in both countries has made settling in one place hard for us.
Just to touch on some of your points:
re #1: I agree. CA is so expensive, and even though pay is far lower in Ireland, I always felt better off living in Ireland than in CA. There just seems to be higher bills, and more of them. Sounds like you don't have kids yet, but when you do, medical costs can rocket, which makes life even harder. Even with a good medical insurance plan, out-of-pocket costs are too high!
re #2: I've seen discussions on this topic on other sites, and the reason you give here (family) is why most people want to move back. We all know there are, and probably always will be, economy issues, and of course there's the weather and other downsides, but most Irish people are not prepared to cut ties with family.
re #3: I've traveled in Europe for work with Americans, and they are always stunned at how people can just drop everything and go on 'holidays'. It's bizarre to them.
re #4: can't beat free pre-school! I've paid $360/month for my son to go 3 days a week for 3 hours. Free is better 🙂 I've heard a lot of people complain in Ireland though about the high cost of childcare (pre preschool kids I guess). I think in the US there are more options for this, which may give you a better chance for finding a better deal.
I'd definitely never give anybody the “sure, it will be grand, come on home” speech you mention. I've received it too, and it's so far from the truth. No matter where you live, there are hurdles to jump. Ireland's no different. I've heard tons of stories where settling back in after a stint away doesn't work out. Throw in a foreign-born spouse, and they have even more to adjust to. But...it is doable 🙂
I suppose the reasons for considering a return home are very much dependent on your personal circumstance, and so many factors will play a part in the decision - kids, your age, fiances, where you're coming back from etc.
I'd love to hear the opinion of a few Irish people who are considering a return home, or have done it. I'll tag a few of you, so if you have anything to add, then please do @oonaghferg @cfinegan @mairead @mcphaid @dealgan66 @ciaranc
Just make the move! That's my advice. I tried twice. The first time the negative attitudes of people ruined it on me. We weren't back in the U.S. 2 weeks when we regretted it. The U.S. has lots of people who love and talk up their country and Ireland is the opposite. If you can get here, listen to those people and still love it, then theirs no question. Now we moved up to the most beautiful county, Donegal and are loving life. The free pre school, is brilliant and works perfectly well. And now under 6s get free gp health care. My employer also gives us free private insurance. Schools are also great here.
We picked up and left because we were sick of planning. If you love Ireland, if Ireland is compatible with your situation and if the U.S Is not, then that's all there is to it. Maybe look at relocating somewhere cheap like Donegal for the first 6 months to a year. We are baffled by how wonderful letterkenny is. You might stay, or you might not. But it's positive up here, it's cheap. It's magically beautiful and your surrounded by foreigners and positive Irish people. After 6 months you may want to stay, or you mAy feel like "hey, we are now habitually resident, let's move to a major city".
I'm 27, my wife is 27(American). I lived in the U.S. For 5 years and my wife always wanted to live here. For the first time in years, we don't feel like if one of us wee fired we would be out of the street. The deep seeded stress of u.s life and politics is now nothing more than a fella I have to speak to at work, who expresses his desire to visit Ireland some day.
And these days, Ireland has brilliant shopping, night life, tourism, universities, schools, private healthcare that provides the same as the U.S. At a fraction of the price If you really want, friendly people, beautiful natural beauty and in the coming years will have world class theme parks and water parks. Not to mention cheap flights to the sun! Don't have the mentality that you are "just returning for family" because when family let you down, depression will hit. Do it for everything else. Make a list of all the things you never appreciated until you left and then visit all those cool place like the giants causeway, the cliffs of moher, new grange, Donegal beaches and the likes.
Hope people her can provide good advice. I found it a very helpful community.
P.s the crime in Ireland is still Tom and Jerry compared to the uS. Don't forget that when Irish people insist it's dangerous.,,.its just not.
Thanks for both of your inputs. You have definitely given us a lot to think about. Liam, my husband said he is willing to put up with the rain!! He has only ever visited in winter up in till the wedding in August. He did mention in Ireland last month he noticed when it rains people just throw on a jumper and continues to walk their dogs or go for a run. Here in Ca they even the slightest mist people think the day is ruined
Liam, how often do you go to America? My husband just pointed out that another reason it would be easier to move to Ireland is more vacation- so more time to visit family (as opposed to me having only 2 weeks a year here). I think childcare everywhere cost a lot, but it seems as if Ireland has more benefits (free daycare, better public school, gp under 6 years) which is something we have to consider since we do plan to have kids in the future. And don't get me started with healthcare, we just switched insurances and my husband is scared to go to the pharmacy at Target to pick up his inhaler. I do agree with you that wherever you live there's going to be hurdles, especially throwing in foreign born spouse (he's still doesn't understand how the immersion works). I've also read many stories about people moving back to Ireland with 1-2 years of savings and moved back to the states once all their savings were spent.
Cfin, I have family up in donegal and love to visit it when I can. My husband purposed to me at slieve league at the cliffs. I'm from Ballina. My husband loves Ballina. He comes from a city one million in population and he never understood the town life. He and his family really loved Ballina. They kept saying to me, "carol, why the heck did you leave Ballina for San Jose." It's small, but has lots to offer (hiking, fishing, biking to Westport, Enniscrone beach). He loved the everytime he walked in town he would run into one of my relative or random people he met at the pubs. Ballina could be an option once we have kids, but as of now we think a city would be the easiest because of the jobs we have now here in the states. There's always room for changes and we're open for it. Your post you mentioned you moved to Ireland then moved back to u.s, before you realized your decision with wrong. Why did the first time fail?
We not just considering moving back to Ireland because of family. We're taking consideration cost of living, quality of life, work life balance. If we wanted to try to become millionaires over night, become Vice President of a company, start my own tech start-up company then we're living at the place right now that would give us the most opportunities. That's not what we plan for our lives.
@cfinegan Thanks for chiming in, and delighted to see life back home is going well for you.
One question re:Donegal...how cheap is 'cheap'? For example how much is a house rental in/near Letterkenny?
@soju4321 the plan no matter where we have lived has always been to go back for visits every one to two years, but as much as that was possibly while it was just the 2 of us, it really isn't anymore. For a family of 5, we're looking at $5000-$6000 for off peak flights. That's just not doable for us. The reality is more like every few years, or one of us takes one of the kids every year or so. It's a sad reality, but 5/6k is just not feasible for most people. I'd put that on your pros/cons list if you have one, but just like my situation, you can't just put it on one side of the list. When there are 2 nationalities involved, it sucks either way 🙁
Funny you should mention the rain in CA. It's headline news when it rains 🙂 And in Ireland, it's headline news when it's 20 Celsius 🙂
Also in your last paragraph where you addressed @cfinegan, you mentioned about US opportunities. That's a tough one too. Tell me if you disagree, but by living in Ireland your kids might have a better shot at a good education (it helps that it won't cost 30K/year), and in the US they'd have better opportunity when they are done with college. It's one of the things that I tell my kids...that they are lucky to be dual citizens. It really is great for them to have the best of both places as they get older.
Ireland would actually be a good place for a tech start up. Many success stories these days. We put all of our eggs in one basket the first time. We overplanned and expected everything to work within those plans. We relied heavily on family and people and people were not there for us. You will feel down and you will at some point feel like it is too difficult. You will forget the reasons you came to Ireland, when people start telling you negatively that you were mad for moving back. At the same time, we forgot all of the issues we had in the US with childcare, healthcare and the shabby unhealthy standard of living we had. My job in Ireland fell apart and the same day I was offered a job in the US. We had said once we were back in the US that we would surely end up back in Ireland and that next time we would do it properly. And we did! Life here is Fresh.
And @Liam, a 4 bed house up here is anywhere from 450-800 a month. If you have to time to wait, a house just outside of LK is about 600. Also, I feel like the opportunities, even during peak economic times in the US aren't what they used to be and I have a good feeling that now with the Irish economy back in track, the miserably years of recession might not be as bad next time.
Liam- My husband's grandparents lived in the Philippines. When him and his sisters were young they would spend the entire summer there to spend time with their grandparents/ relatives. Only his mom went with them and not his dad (both parents are Filipino). He went to Philippines until he was about 8, that age where you're into summer sports, summer school and that age where you don't want to leave your friends. He didn't go back till he was 17. And only his mom would go back every other year.
I would agree with you regarding better chance at education in Ireland (not just the cost) and more opportunities in the state after graduating. In general, I feel you'll have more opportunities if you have dual citizen. Cfingan did bring up a good point about Ireland growing their own tech bubble, main part why Irish economy is growing.
That's still something we have to research about dual citizen. I'm perm resident here in America. If we had kids in Ireland they would be u.s citizen right away oppose to hen being born in u.s and automatically Irish citizen. I got to do research on how they would become u.s citizen beside being petition (being 18 years) and having to live in the state for 3 years.
Cfin- we were both shocked that a 2 bed apartment in Ballina is roughly 300 euros/month. We spend more on our healthcare premium =( we have thought about moving to Ballina where my family is and having our own apartment and staying here still be both get settled. Good part is most places are fully furnished.
Carol,
Children born abroad, who have at least one US parent, should have no problem acquiring proof of US citizenship. Here's the info on honest
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html
Thanks Liam for the info!!